S8. Bonus 5 | The Power of Struggling Well: A Candid Talk with Melinda Estabrooks
Join us in this heartfelt and inspiring bonus episode of "Affirming Truths" where host Carla Arges sits down with Melinda Estabrooks, the dynamic host and executive producer of "See Hear Love" on Yes TV. This episode dives deep into the concept of "struggling well" in the Christian journey. Melinda opens up about her personal battles with depression and the misconceptions around suffering in faith communities. Together, they explore how struggles can become significant opportunities for growth and deeper connection with God.
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Key Takeaways
The Role of the Holy Spirit:
Melinda stresses the importance of the Holy Spirit in navigating personal failures and unloving moments. She discusses the transformative journey of inviting the Holy Spirit into her struggles.Purpose in Pain:
The Importance of Relationships:
Building and maintaining strong relationships both with God and others requires intentional work and prioritization, as Melinda reflects on her experiences.The discussion highlights the power of community and support during times of suffering, reflecting on how friendship and faith networks sustain us through difficult times.
ncremental Steps in Healing:
Melinda encourages taking small, manageable steps towards healing, emphasizing patience and persistence in overcoming personal challenges.
Melinda Estabrooks is an influential figure with over two decades of dedication in speaking, advocacy, media, and leadership training. As the host and executive producer of 'See Hear Love' on Yes TV, she stands at the forefront of fostering vital and challenging dialogues within Christian echelons. Melinda is celebrated for her compelling narratives and her commitment to making an impact through her words which resonate with truth, healing, and empowerment.
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Resources:
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TRANSCRIPT
Carla Arges [00:00:08]:
Hey friends, welcome to affirming truth. I'm your friend and host, Carla Arges. This show is a safe place to share our struggles, grow in faith, and root our identity in Christ. My hope is that you will leave each episode feeling encouraged in your journey. It subscribe so you don't miss an episode. And it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review. I am so glad you're here. Let's get started.
Carla Arges [00:00:38]:
Hello friends. Welcome to this bonus episode of affirming truths. I love the guests that we have on today. I've actually been dreaming of having her on for a while, so this is very exciting for me. I want you guys to meet Melinda Estebrox. She is the visionary, the executive producer, the host behind see here love on yes tv. She is a champion at amplifying voices and really having the tough conversations we need to have in christian circles. She does not shy away from the hard, and I love that about her and she does it with such grace.
Carla Arges [00:01:16]:
So welcome, Melinda.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:01:19]:
Thank you, Carla. I love that. I'm so grateful. When you do a bio, people kind of pick and choose what they want to say about you. And I just appreciate that you've said that about the tough topics, amplifying voices, because that's so my heart. It's so my heart to amplify canadian voices, voices that aren't heard and to really tackle tough topics that the church or your family or christian culture don't want to talk about, are too afraid to or shamed about. And so thank you for setting that up so nicely.
Carla Arges [00:01:52]:
Well, thank you for doing that work. And thank you for coming here today to have one of those tough conversations, one of those hard conversations. And before we dive into that, why don't you give us the quick sort of four one one anything I've missed in introducing you about Melinda?
Melinda Estabrooks [00:02:12]:
No. I think yes. Currently, I'm the host and executive producer of see her love. But I've been speaking for over 25 years across Canada and the world, sharing my story. And you really got my career started in advocacy work and fundraising and then into media and leadership training. So I've had sort of this breadth of lots of things that I've enjoyed and passionate. And I think one of the greatest things is I have really, and I don't know why, but I have done work and jobs in vocation that I've loved. It's been a really cool journey to be like, oh, my goodness, I get paid to do this work.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:02:52]:
And that's been a really, as I look back at my life. I turned 50 last year, and so I've had a lot of time to just contemplate and sit in aging and just sort of think about my life and just so grateful for all the different opportunities, all the women I've met and all the stories that I've heard.
Carla Arges [00:03:10]:
Oh, that is so beautiful. Our conversation today is going to be something that I know a lot of women are going to relate to. And I actually heard you say this on your Instagram stories with, see here, love. And this was the idea of struggling well. And I know that that has been a word that God has given you for 2024. And I just want to unpack that because there is struggle. There is struggle. How do you do it? Well, how did God imprint this word on your heart coming into this new year?
Melinda Estabrooks [00:03:52]:
It's good, Carla. And it's not been an overnight thing. This wasn't like, I'm doing a show on word of the year. Okay, chop chop. Let me get this motto, I guess, go know. I was raised in a missionary home, adopted into a missionary family in the Philippines. My parents are canadian, surrounded by college, you know, church, church, church, church. And I have never heard struggle.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:04:22]:
Well, I've heard try not to struggle. Try always to be happy. Always put on a happy face. God is with you, so everything should be good. Things are going to work out. And it was always sort of ingrained in me that struggle is something you want to stay away from and run away as far as you can from. And, well, be joyful. Well, be grateful, well, be focused and courageous.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:04:52]:
Well. And so I never really put those two together until last year. My husband and I started going to a church, and one day the minister was talking about a Bible story, and it was sort of tough. As one of the parables at the very end, the minister says, so now, congregation, as you heard this parable, go out and struggle well with the Holy Spirit as you figure out what this parable means to you and what you were to do. And, Carla, I was mad because I wanted the minister to give me the three point lesson of what this parable meant, how to live my life, and three good points, starting with p, p and p, you know, how we grew up, or s, sns. Here's the three s, the three p's. And I was mad at him. I actually have never been mad at a minister pastor like that in a while, because I was.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:05:50]:
No, no, I don't want to struggle. Well, I want you to tell me how to live, what to do, and how to do life well. And so when we were driving home, I looked over at my husband, Chris, and I just said, I didn't like that. And my husband's great. He's very patient, kind. He was a former pastor. He's just in that way. And he said, well, let's talk about it.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:06:12]:
And I realized, carla, that for a lot of my life, and it's kind of like, because I've been this christian and doing christian ministry, and I have a tv show, I have been afraid to struggle. I have been wanting everything to go well and be good and to be sanitized and to look good, because what will people think about me if everything just is falling apart? But he said, what if? My husband said, what if you reframe your life and go struggle well, don't be afraid of the struggle, but struggle well in it, go through it, dig deep, love deeply, cling to the holy spirit and to what God is saying. Surround yourself, community, and reframe. Struggle into struggling well as part of life. And that would be a good way to live life. And I had to sit on, actually, honestly, Carly struggled with the struggling well. But then I knew that the Holy Spirit and God was poking me, because when you have some tension in yourself, you are having some battles. That's something where you have to go, ping.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:07:19]:
God is trying to tell me something. And it was months, Carl, months. And I was, like, upset, raging, and then grieving and quiet to say, really. And then I realized as I looked back at my life, I hadn't struggled well. And that caused me a lot of issues, a lot of shame, a lot of anxiety, depression moments. When I did struggle well, I saw that I was able to go through pain and struggle. And so when I came into 2024, I was like, God, what word? And I've had so many different words over the years. For my new year, God was just like, it's struggle well.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:07:59]:
It's struggle well and not alone, but with me, I love that.
Carla Arges [00:08:03]:
I think there's sometimes this conception or misconception in the faith community that if you're struggling, that somehow means that you're lacking in faith. You got to pray harder. Your faith isn't strong enough. You have sin in your life. God's favor isn't on you. And we've come to see struggle as evidence of being outside of God's hand, when really the struggle is the sanctification. Like, that is the hard stuff. And if we actually look at the heroes of faith, it is evidence of struggling and wrestling and doing it with Jesus.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:08:51]:
That's right. And that's it. That's it. I think one of the things, Carla, way back, I remember when I was going through my depression, I had eight months dark night of the soul. And I share this within my own story, but it was a combination of five major things that happened in my life that my brain just shut down. And it was really dark. And I was ashamed and I was embarrassed because I was, like, on the board of a church and I was doing ministry work, and I am depressed and so dark. And I remember know in the struggling.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:09:35]:
Well, I wish somebody had said that to me, because instead I had a few voices say, mel, how can you be depressed if the Holy Spirit's within you like you're a child of God? Melinda, how can you be depressed? You've got all the power. And again, quoting two Timothy one seven and all the verses that are about power, love, sound mind, God with you. And I couldn't hear it, I couldn't feel it. And Carl, I think back, and if somebody had said, Mel, let's struggle well together, struggle well with God through this, he's with you. So in the struggle and in that desperation, and when you're in the fetal position and you're on the floor, it's the struggle, but God's with you. It would have totally changed, I believe, some of the experience and the thoughts that were in my mind. And so I hear you and I think, wow, the churches. Yeah, I grieve because what church and people of faith have said to people in the struggle has done such damage.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:10:44]:
Like we said, it's like they've called out, well, you're not in the will of God, obviously, you're not following him. Obviously, there's deep sin in your life, obviously. And what does that do? That just puts on more shame and more judgment and more fear on a.
Carla Arges [00:11:02]:
And you're adding a spiritual burden on top of someone who's already struggling. And yet we see God was with Paul, and Paul was not saved of struggling. Jesus himself had to struggle all the way to the cross. Why do we think, as his children, we would be exempt from that? And it's not a reflection that we aren't his, but oftentimes it's a reflection that we are his. And he is to create deeper dependency on.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:11:45]:
Go.
Carla Arges [00:11:45]:
No, no, you go.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:11:47]:
Oh, no. I was just saying. And in the struggle, I mean, I think about the struggles that I've had. I'm a different, deeper, stronger woman than if I hadn't gone through it. And I hate saying that because when you're into struggle, you hate it. God, why all of that? But now that I've gone through it, and I'm careful to say that because so many. I don't want to ever diminish the pain or the struggle that people are going through right now, but I've been through a lot of pain and struggle, and when I've gone through it and I've struggled well and really clung to Jesus and really chose to have community around me, I am a stronger person, actually. There are now things that I am faced with that I now can get through a lot better, a lot quote unquote easier.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:12:33]:
It really builds resilience, and it builds my faith. And so there is something. I think you're right about Jesus and the struggle. It ties you way more closer to him. You. I can relate to the stories even better through my own struggle. When I read about Jesus'life, and also, like you said, the heroes of faith. And in the Bible, you're like, oh, I get that.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:12:54]:
I get the stutter, Moses. I get the unbelief. And you can go on and on because you've been there, and then you see what's happened in their. You know, you're like, they were just know. You and me, they had their, you know. I look at myself as a lot of the disciples. Can you imagine Jesus with these disciples? Like, how frustrating. I don't believe you.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:13:21]:
Where am I going to sit beside you? I don't believe you. What are you. Ugh. And Jesus is my. You're my people. You're my friend. So. Absolutely.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:13:34]:
I think there is something very connected in the struggle with Jesus when we do.
Carla Arges [00:13:40]:
Yeah. And I think sometimes there's this black and white thinking that comes over. You're either living the fruit of the spirit, or you're struggling. And yet I think what people don't understand is that there is so much duality in how we live that you can struggle and still have the fruit of the spirit. How has that looked like for you? How do you struggle well and still have that joy? How do you have hope? How are you able to not whitewash your pain but still authentically say, even so, I rejoice in the Lord?
Melinda Estabrooks [00:14:21]:
Good. And good question. Really good question. Wow. Okay, so I'll start off with not always perfect and not always but. And I know I have a very different connection and how I approach Jesus than I know others in that. Carla, even in the midst of my prodigal years running away, when I tried to take my own life, when I went through my depression, when I went through my public divorce, when I went through abuse and assault, I know the sense, and it's very emotional. But I always knew that God was with me, that God was for me.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:15:03]:
I don't know. I don't know why a lot of my girlfriends are like, mel, that's a really beautiful gift that you have since you were little. But I have always deeply known in my soul, my spirit, the bowels of my body, that God loved me. And it. Could it be because I was adopted? And I understood, even at a young age, that being an orphan and then adopted into a family who chose me to love me and call me their own was direct connection of how God does the same for us. Maybe, carla, like, there was something very deep in me that I knew. I've always known that God assist me. So even in those places of distance away or choosing the wrong way or things done to me that were so painful, I never blamed God.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:15:59]:
I was never angry at always. I always just knew that he was with me. And so in that. And I know that sounds, because I know a lot of people don't have that. I know a lot of my girlfriends say, mel, that's a gift, because we struggle with love of father, love of God, unconditional love, because of trauma that we've experienced, because of hurt that has happened to us. It's really caused a barrier. And I hear that, and I know that, and I grieve with that, because that's been some lonely places for a lot of my girlfriends. And yet, Carla, for me, even so, I've just always known God's love.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:16:36]:
And so when you talk about fruits of the spirit, I believe that in knowing and having a relationship with God, somehow in relationship with him and with the Holy Spirit, I have always realized that those fruits are a markers of the love I have for him, markers and ways of living so that I can love others. I think when challenging and hard things are done to you, you don't want other people to go through that. And so how can I bring joy and love and peace, patience and goodness and righteousness to the world? Because I have experienced the opposite. I've also experienced the fruits of the spirit from people who showed mercy and kindness to me on my journey when I was so far away. So I know it's so. But the way that I live is also because of the things that I desire for myself, and I receive that from people, but also knowing the pain of the world, I want to be a contributor to the fruits of the spirit. To the world, there's so much pain. People don't need more aggression and racism and misogyny and biases and hatred and violence against them.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:18:06]:
And so how can I be an agent and bear of the fruits of the spirit so those around me in the world can be better? And that really, I believe, comes from this relationship I have with Jesus as I get older. It's a deepening love for him. And when I read stories of the struggles he went through, the promises he made, the way he loved women, the arm around the adulterer, the adulterous woman. When I dug into that, it changed my life, the love that he had for a woman, and called out men, called out the perpetrators. So I say that, and I know it sounds a little bit not as concrete as I would like, but there's just been something in me where the more that I get to know Jesus, the more that I have surrounded myself in community with people who also love him and are committed to showing love and kindness to the world. It then makes me a woman who's like, okay, I still struggle with things. I've gone through a lot of struggle, but now I'm choosing to, in the midst of the struggle, be somebody of love, joy, peace, and patience. And it's an know decision, too, Carla.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:19:22]:
It's not like, okay, automatically, you know, there are times I've really failed and been very angry at people and haven't been so loving, but I try. And the good part is, I know that, again, the Holy Spirit is there to whisper and speak and speak to others, like the minister who said, struggle well. Okay. All right.
Carla Arges [00:19:47]:
I think you really, if I were to pull out from that, really connected the fact that it is in relationship with God. I think sometimes we put pressure on ourselves to manufacture the fruit of the spirit in and of ourselves. But really, it's not the fruit of Melinda, it's not the fruit of Carla. It is the fruit of the spirit. So how are we inviting the spirit in? Because in and of ourselves, we can't produce it. In and of ourselves, we can't struggle well. So how are we choosing every day to be open handed to God and say, okay, be here, guide me, help me to do this? Struggle well?
Melinda Estabrooks [00:20:30]:
And I love that, carla. And this is even with the show and this is even with our kids, there has been. And I don't know where this came from. And it's not necessarily like a church culture thing, but so much of my teaching or the shows or when I'm out speaking at women's conferences, over and over. Carl, I have to say, it is not just going to happen to you. You have to do the work. People are like, well, Melinda, how? And then I actually go back and go, well, what have you said? It sounds like you've done nothing. But in any relationship with your kids, with your parents, with your spouse, with your partner, you have to do the work.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:21:18]:
Listening, leaning in, having deep conversations about expectations and boundaries and honesty, there is work, and it's hard work. It's the same as with God. That's what I say to people. It's like, not the relationship is it hard, but, like, listening and talking and being with and reading and talking again and listening. There is a relationship with Jesus that needs to be cultivated, that needs to have some priorities set aside, some intention, just like in any other relationship. And I say this because a lot of times when women come to me after I speak, and they're like, I don't know why this isn't working in my life, and this and this and this. And I literally go, well, what have you done to make it better? What have you done? What step have you made? Well, I don't know. It's just, I don't understand why he's not listening or why again and again, I said, ladies, there needs to be work.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:22:18]:
There needs to be a choice of intentionality in this area, and you've got to do the work. No one's going to do it for you. It's not just going to happen. And I say that to the church, and that's why coming back full circle, it struck me like, wow. Because the thing that I didn't like about women who were saying, why isn't it happening to me? I was actually feeling the same way at church when the Minister didn't tell me how to live my life after the sermon, and he said, now, struggle well with the Holy Spirit, and let the holy spirit tell you what this means. And then I started laughing because I'm like, oh, my goodness, I'm such a hypocrite. I'm upset with him. And that's exactly what I tell, you know, the women.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:23:00]:
But I think that's really good, that there's got to be some work in that. And I'm just saying there's just got to be more intention. And I'm saying that to myself, Carla, but I say that to others, that there's got to be the work of doing. But also, you're right that not to manufacture it or do joy and love on your own, but the spirit, God's spirit. As you get to know him more, it comes naturally. You don't actually start thinking. It's like breath. You just start doing it.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:23:32]:
You're like, oh, I'm responding out of kindness, when usually I know I'd be kind of angry, but there's something in me that's just responding in that loving way. Right. And that's the work.
Carla Arges [00:23:42]:
It is the work. It reminds me of a story where this woman was praying for God to give her bread, and he provided her all the ingredients, and she's like, no, God. I asked for bread. We actually have to take what God is giving us and do our work. He is a God of partnership. He is a God of community. He doesn't bulldoze his way in. And that comes even with our suffering.
Carla Arges [00:24:08]:
God doesn't necessarily want to rescue us in the way that we see it. He wants to provide the tools to help us do it with him. And that's the partnership. And that's what is so beautiful about God, is that he calls us in, like, he could do things any number of ways, but he actually wants to do it in partnership with us. And it reminds me, too, that when we are talking about suffering and praying for rescue, that we're living in this in between. Yes, God saved me at the cross. He's continuing to save me as I suffer, and he will one day save me, ultimately, when we're glorified with him. So how do I do this middle portion? Well, what does suffering well look like to Melinda?
Melinda Estabrooks [00:25:05]:
Yeah, it's an interesting time because I'm in the midst of. It's hard. Two of my girlfriends who are deeply suffering and are wanting death more than life, that I'll say, and I don't know. Their kind of don't. I really don't. It's deep. It's difficult in so many ways, and there's been a lot of suffering and struggle around. Chris and I.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:25:47]:
The last year, we've had a number of people pass away, and people get sick, and it's been very painful, and we're trying to be strong and be encouraging and be present. When I look at people who are suffering well, and it's not easy, because in the reality of it, the friends who I love, some days are good and some days are bad. Some days there's a lot of anger, and then some days there's a great peace. And sometimes I question God, where are you in the midst of this? Because how could somebody suffer so much and so constantly? And yet I hear, Carla, there's this overwhelming sense, when I observe and see people suffering that way, that there is something like what we talked about earlier, it's almost like a deeper connection with God in the suffering. And so physically, it's so painful. But some of the women I know, there's this incredible peace within it and a hope, and not a manufacturer, what you said, but I've seen just them over and over. Okay, I'm going to hope. It doesn't feel like it, but I'm going to hope.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:27:11]:
And I think, too, knowing that this isn't the end of our story, our life, that we're with Jesus. There is a sense of that, too, that this is for a time, but sometimes it's really sucky that the time feels so long, and it can go on for years, the suffering and pain. And so I am very gracious. And when people get so angry and are hurting and are like, why, I would rather just die, and I don't want to go on. So I think suffering, the struggling, well, I think the one thing that I've seen is, and this is what I say to all the women that I talk to, Carla, is that you can't, and you shouldn't struggle or suffer alone. You really need people. Every time I was in crisis, I had people who were there to pray and be there for me. Because sometimes you just have to have people raise your arms because you can't.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:28:06]:
And that's really key. Yes, the journey of suffering will be yours, but you need your people. Because sometimes when I was in struggle, I'm like, I can't pray. You can't move. I can't do this. I can't make it to my therapist. I don't want to. No, Melinda, we'll pick you up.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:28:23]:
I can't have a shower. I don't want to. Okay, well, we'll put you in the shower. I can't sing. I want to worship, but I'm so upset with God. Well, then we'll sing for you, around you, around your bed, like, over and over, God's people showed up. And so I think in the suffering, wow, there's definitely a need for people, for your people. And if you're the person, show mean.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:28:45]:
So many people are like, I don't know what to do, Mal, in your struggle. And I was like, can you just sit with me and sing a song? Can you sit with me and read scripture? Can you sit with me? Know, put me in the was, and people showed up. And so I think on both sides, you need your people. You need to ask but also people like me. It's like, show up, show up in the need. And so I think that was really key for me. And then I had very honest journaling conversations with God. I'm a journaler.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:29:16]:
I have so many journals. I write so many things. Years and years of journaling, and so many times I would journal, and I would start off really angry, really angry at God. And the next thing I know, those pages would be filled with prayers from lament to actually, like a psalm, to like, okay, I'm going to choose that you're love endures forever. I will choose that you're with me. And I would write it out. And when I was discouraged and I didn't want to write, if I was in the hospital or wherever I was, I would read back my journals, and my own words actually would encourage me, which would be kind of like this weird thing, but I'd be like, yeah, I said that. Oh, wait, whoa.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:29:52]:
I said that. That was my prayer. And so the journaling and prayers, and then I did a lot of talking to God. I mean, sometimes I'm not a good listener to God. I like to talk, but in the talking, there are times where I'd hear him say, just listen. I would sit quietly and listen and hear some things. And a lot of times I'd say, this will be for a time. And I'd be like, well, how long is it going to last? And he wouldn't tell me, of course, but it's like, I'm with you, and I'm here with mean.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:30:22]:
Those are in my own personal experiences. Carla, what really helped me, and then the know again as a young child, memorizing verses and songs that had scripture really saved me as I got older. And I know people are like, what? I'm not kidding. In Sunday school. And they're like, you got to memorize this verse. And I'd be like, rolling my eyes, and all of us kids would be like, this is so dumb. Those verses saved me life. Verses that came back roaring back when I was running away from God at the clubs, all of a sudden, a verse would pop in my head, and I'd be like, what is going on? And it was like, no, I'm going to give you this verse and a song.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:31:00]:
Bible. Sunday school songs would come back when I was at my lowest. And so even now, it's not too late, but I actually started memorizing more verses and started finding worship songs. I could kind of sing along to that worship scripture that really helped me during a lot of suffering and cris.
Carla Arges [00:31:20]:
Yeah. I mean, that's your offensive weapon, the sword of the spirit. You can't fight the good fight without the right weapons. And I always encourage women. You have to get into the word, and you have to figure out what works for you, because there's more than one way to study the Bible.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:31:37]:
Right.
Carla Arges [00:31:38]:
I know for me, as I suffer with my mental health challenges, even right now, I'm in the midst of a depression, and I know the things that I've learned to choose to do, and it's a practice, and as you practice it, you get more proficient at it. But I tell myself, in the suffering, there's three things I've got to do. I've got to do something that takes care of me. Sometimes that's just brushing my teeth. Depending on how low I am, sometimes it's getting in a full workout. Right. Like, what my capacity is may change, but what's one thing I could do for me? What's one thing I can do for my ministry? And then what's one thing that I can do to bless my family? And I think sometimes when we try to get out of ourselves and see past our suffering, it brings hope. And so I would encourage the woman who is suffering to maybe ask God to give you eyes to see where you could bless someone else, because there's so much life giving in that as well.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:32:55]:
Yeah, that's good. And when I was going through my depression, my therapist in very small things, just like you said, carla, it's like, walk to the door today. Next you'll walk down the hall. Next day, go down the elevator, and next day, go to the door, walk down the hall, go down the elevator, your condo, and just stand outside in the sun. And it was these little incremental things that I did that eventually got me to walk around the lake and started getting me on this path to just healing. And you're right. She didn't say, all right, today you're going to walk around the lake. Yeah, it was, no, you're going to go to the door.
Carla Arges [00:33:35]:
Yeah.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:33:37]:
Okay. And next day, you're going to open the door and walk down the hall. And that really was an amazing, incredible, great piece of advice. And I do that with my life, too. If I get overwhelmed, it's like, what's the one small thing you can do to get there? I can do that. Then what's the next thing that adds to that? I can do that. And next thing I know, I'm sitting, I'm like, I've done it. I did it.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:34:00]:
All. But I did it in little incremental, little sort of almost packaged pieces, and I got there. And I want to encourage a woman, too. That don't start with the big thing, but little pieces, like you said, of how to get there have helped me along the way.
Carla Arges [00:34:17]:
That's so good. Before we wrap up, is there any last word of encouragement that you would love to give the woman who is struggling and wants to do it? Well?
Melinda Estabrooks [00:34:30]:
I think the best thing, Carla, and to you, the women who are listening at the end of every show that I do at see her love, we always say, always know, you are seen, heard and deeply loved by God. And after 25 years of speaking and hearing those three things from women, I don't feel seen. I don't feel heard. I don't feel loved. I just want to remind you that you are, when you don't feel like you're seen by your partner or spouse or yourself, by yourself or by God or by others, you don't matter. You are seen. And you can read through the scriptures and know that God sees you. Psalm 139 is a full chapter.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:35:16]:
Psalm 139, of being known, being seen, being created, and that you are heard. So many times, women feel like their voice doesn't matter, that their voice and story are shut out, whether it's because you are a woman or because of your ethnicity or because of your past. But God needs and wants to hear from you, and so does the world. We need to hear your story. We need to hear your struggle. We need to hear. And then just being deeply loved is something I always cling to because sometimes I don't feel lovable. I don't feel like I should be loved.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:35:52]:
I don't feel loved, especially for myself sometimes and my worst enemy and critic. But God deeply loves you. And so I think that's the best way, Carla, and is that you are seen, you are heard, and you're deeply loved by God.
Carla Arges [00:36:07]:
I love that. Thank you so much for being here, Melinda. Guys, check out Melinda on see here love. I'll put all the details in the show notes, but I so appreciate you, Melinda. Thank you so much.
Melinda Estabrooks [00:36:18]:
Thank you so much, Carla. It was an honor and privilege to be with you.
Carla Arges [00:36:27]:
Thanks for joining me today. I hope we're already friends on social media, but if we're not, come find me on Instagram at Carla Arges or at affirming truth. Can't wait to see you back here next week. Bye, friends.